Early January 2011 I wrote that I started the year in a bad mood (¹) After finding repeated incompetence of Apple sellers, during the Christmas holidays, concerning devices they sold, mainly iPad and iPhone. Unfortunately, I note that 5 years later, Nothing has changed, it is to despair !
I don't know in what language to write it, but this unacceptable breach of their products even today causes the disbelief of new clients regarding the presence of a true GPS on these mobile devices. I just have recently to experience it with a boater who argued me, I quote :
" It is an error to say that the Cellular iPad integrates a "GPS chip"., It is only a chip that makes a triangulation by GSM antennas..
Source : verified by myself _AND_ confirmed by APPLE. ”
And to specify, in response to my strong denials :
"When I said that it had been confirmed to me by Apple, it's not about "Apple sellers in the store" but from Apple support by phone with a guy who searched in their internal database . ”
I don't know who writes these "internal databases" but Apple support should be required to read articles on websites iFixit and Chipworks to learn what's under the hood of their mobiles.
iPad Wi-Fi vs. iPad Wi-Fi+Cellular
Of these two models, The first, iPad Wi-Fi, only has Wi-Fi as a means of network connection, and the location is only provided by geo-referenced Wi-Fi hotspots (²), therefore very imprecise.
The second model, called the iPad Wi-Fi+Cellular, provides access to 3G/4G cellular network with a SIM card and an appropriate subscription (like an iPhone). It is featured with a modem processor designed by Qualcomm (MDM96x5M Series), which incorporates a A-GPS assisted receiver (Qualcomm IZat Gen8C), to which is added an inertial 3-axis sensor and 3-axis accelerometer, all providing extremely accurate positioning of the mobile, serving navigation mapping for car , marine or air applications. The location can therefore be obtained alternatively by the Wi-Fi access points, by cellular antennas trilateration, or built-in GPS. The A-GPS receiver is compatible with the American GPS, Russian GLONASS systems, and soon GALILEO (³).
About iPhone, they all are featured with such processor with built-in assisted GPS modem. There is therefore no need to make a choice.
iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular
With the risk of repeating, once again, GPS location doesn't absolutely need the cellular network to work, a SIM card and a subscription to this network are therefore absolutely UN-NE-CES-SA-RY. The A-GPS chip built into this model (like iPhones) is fully capable of acquiring GPS constellation satellites without the assistance of (the "A" in A-GPS) by the cellular network. This assistance provides only an acceleration of the achievement of location, or accelerated location recovery if lost after passing through a tunnel, in example, through the connection on a dedicated server providing real-time ephemeris of the satellite constellation. This is particularly important on the road use. Without this assistance, the GPS receiver works autonomously like any other GPS receiver, marine or outdoor.
In conclusion, to debunk erroneous information leaked by Apple resellers, an iPad Wi-Fi + Cellular, as an iPhone, is able to locate yourself anywhere on the globe, in the middle of the Pacific Ocean as well as the Sahara Desert, or in an aircraft at 9000 meters of altitude (⁴), without any access to the internet network.
Thank you for reposting widely !
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(¹) iPad , GPS and 3G cellular network subscription
(²) How iPhone knows where you are
(³) Qualcomm Announces Broad Support for Galileo Across Snapdragon Processor and Modem Portfolios
(⁴) iPad GPS far away from networks
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Hi Francis,
But currently on the Apple France website in the iPad comparison .. there is not even mention of the GPS whatever the model.. and if you choose to buy an iPad 2 air for example we don't even find it in the description …!!
My Mac Mini Late 2009 still walking .. !
regards
Regarding the (me)Knowledge of Apple Sellers, There is also another scenario :
A friend changes his old iPad2 (cellular) for an iPad4. The seller guarantees that he will be able to geolocate himself without any problem thanks to the internal GPS as on his iPad2. He confidently bought the non-cellular iPad4 and arrived at sea between Cherbourg and the Isle of Wight what was supposed to happen, Arrived: More Location ! He is furious and unfortunately, There are far too many cases that confirm the poor training of the staff who are most of the time in support of teams that are not much better trained than the trainees.
Congratulations for your blog thanks to which I chose the iPad 2 3G which works perfectly with isailor gratis and its cards. Offshore Walking, Some depth errors at the edge but very reliable, More than the sorry navman that was on the boat when I bought it…
I unblocked restoration problems with the Apple care at the tel and it worked.
On the other hand I can't export my routes and the waypoint calculations don't work great. On the other hand I would like to make a blog diary and I think you have an idea for an app to do that? Thank you and congratulations✌ again
I have owned 3 IPAD:s. All are WIFI+CELLULAR.
This comment is written on an IPAD PRO (WIFI+CELLULAR)
I can confirm that sim cards are not needed to make the GPS work. Have been using all IPADS for navigation on the boat and in the car.
The only reason for me to buy the CELLULAR version is to get the GPS chip. Have never used them together whith a SIM vard.
I confirm that I tried an ipad 3G wifi cellular retina between Cayenne and Paris on board an Air France airbus. I didn't have a flea 3 G and I was perfectly located. I usually use it with Inavx on my fast 38 in French Guiana.
Bonjour,
I confirm Maurice's opinion. The iPad certainly does not need the network to know the GPS location, but the iNavX app refuses to load the cards in some cases where it does not have a network connection. I encountered this anomaly twice when opening iNavX in the middle of the sea. Recently with v4.7.4, I found myself in the middle of the sea again and couldn't use the app at all. I checked with a Google Map at the same time that the position is displayed correctly, which means that the iPad did have GPS location. But fortunately I had paper maps on the boat that day.
To specify the anomaly : the app gets stuck with the "Add Cards" page, and the list displayed is then EMPTY (while the cards are stored locally). We wonder what iNavX wants to check while waiting for a network connection. This is probably a bug, because when you start the app with a connection and then lose it at sea, I have never seen this blockage.
So the ambiguity of understanding that Francis talks about and that he has trouble removing despite his explanations is maintained by this bug in the app.
There was a severe bug with the 4.7.3 of iNavX which no longer allowed access to cards without internet access. Since version 4.7.4, if ALL the cards in a folder are downloaded before leaving, There is no reason why they should disappear at sea, unless there is a new bug that I did not experience during my month of delivery from Corsica to Normandy. But in any case, it has absolutely nothing to do with how the iPad's location service works. Do not mix.
I confirm. I have an iPad 2 without a SIM card and uses off wifi of course. The location is precise.
Bonjour,
I confirm Francis' clarifications to 100 %. I have an Ipad with Gps in which I have never had a 3G or 4G phone chip. That doesn't stop me from sailing with. I've also already tested the Pad's gps in a plane. Nickel position.
Ok es muy correcto. He navegado en él Atlantico sur clump de 50 millas de la Costa (por tanto sin antenas de celular) y la única forma de conectar el mini iPad wifi es con un bad elf gps que se conecta a los satélites del sistema gps.
Hello Francis,
This makes everyone doubt, I understood that when you use inavx on a wifi iPad + cellular, He doesn't give you your position if you initialize it at sea far from the antennas he refuses to give you your position; I couldn't find any other solution than to launch the application by leaving the dock to use it at sea.
Thank you for your writings
Mauritius New Orleans Louisiana
With which model, recent ? A standard GPS can take up to more than ten minutes for a TTFF after a long shutdown, or a significant change in geographic location. For an iPhone or an iPad it's the same. As such, the first Broadcom chipsets (iPad 1 and 2) were significantly worse than the Qualcomms that followed.